Assuming Assumptions without making an ASS of U or ME

In recent exchanges with FB friends regarding origins and doctrine, it struck me how very much a basic assumption affects everything that follows the very first presupposition.

Here I should like to look at a few assumptions and consider what difference it would make in our conclusions if we started from a different base.  I will also try to sketch out why I think my 'assumption" hold water, or why the "traditional" one does not.

If I knew what I was doing I would do a graphic with an assumption printed in a circle and a backwards arrow pointing to another assumption that would come before that and another one before that etc, to form a complete cycle of several assumptions all of which lead to the following premise and doctrine.

So for this exercise and blog, I don't know which to start with and what order to deal with them.

How about:

1. When God said: 

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17

The assumption:   This referred to a physical death. 

2. Based on an assumption that There was no physical death before "the Fall".

3. Based on an assumption that when it says:

"And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:12

and
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
Genesis 1:31

That that meant perfection and no decay or death.

4 Based on an assumption that the world was not more than 144 hours and no bacteria or fruit flies had been necessary to build nutrients into the soil or followed what we know as "natural life cycles". That meant there was no time for anything to die physically.

5. Based on an assumption that death is evil and a result of sin.

6. Based on the verse that says:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12


7. Based on an assumption that death means physical death because of:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17

8 Then we jump to:
"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:22

Where because we have made all the above assumptions we extend this "groaning to animals" and count them as part of the creation that Paul is writing about and is awaiting 'redemption'.  of "OUR BODY".

And we conclude triumphantly that.
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

Now to think this through using just the text and word studies.

Perhaps to begin with to clarify the meaning of "good" or "very good".

I am using an online version of Strong's Concordance and the numbering system and "dictionary" to explain the words rather than my having to type everything out.
This then is the entry for "Good" as used in Genesis 1 through 3 and beyond and applies to both "God saw and said it was "good" and then very good and even of the knowledge of "good" and evil.

What is significant here is that "good" does NOT suggest perfection, and I can't imagine anything coming from the hand of God as being "good" even if we referring to the first moment of conception even though it is not a perfect or complete fetus, nor of saying the newborn was not "good" although it was not perfect or complete as a 2 year old, or 20, or 80.  Likewise why would we rule out a decaying or dying plant by thinking it "not good" or a creature that has come to a natural end not "good" when the command was given to "multiply and fill the earth and if there was no death there would be very quickly overpopulation?

Strong's entry:

Strong's Number:   02896    Original Word bwj Transliterated Word Towb  Definition adj good, pleasant, agreeable pleasant, agreeable (to the senses) pleasant (to the higher nature) good, excellent (of its kind) good, rich, valuable in estimation good, appropriate, becoming better (comparative) glad, happy, prosperous (of man's sensuous nature) good understanding (of man's intellectual nature) good, kind, benign good, right (ethical) n m a good thing, benefit, welfare welfare, prosperity, happiness good things (collective) good, benefit moral good n f welfare, benefit, good things welfare, prosperity, happiness good things (collective) bounty Now if my premise that "good" does not mean "perfect" and would NOT rule out Physical death, any yet the Hebrew word for death does suggest "death" but does not specify physical or some other kind.  So now I have to search the text itself. If the word of God was accurate and he says "in the day you eat thereof you will die, and they were not stricken by lightning or the earth swallowing them up, (as were Uzzah and others) and Adam lived until he was 930 years old.  Therefore my first conclusion is that either God was not telling the truth, or he did not mean 24 hours or he did not mean physical death. Next I look to the rest of the Scripture to see what attitude if any is expressed by the Old Testament persons.  I do not see any inference anywhere that they attributed their natural death to Adam's sin.  In fact they considered their natural death as being their "release" to be gathered to their "fathers".  The ONLY connection to death and sinning is the premature death that is attributed to Capital Punishment wherein the crime is also termed a "sin" but it is on the individual basis. Death by war is NOT considered to be the result of the sin of Adam, but because of national defense.  Accidental death I don't think is considered in the OT because nothing would be interpreted as "accidental" until we come to the New Testament when the tower of Siloam fell on some and Jesus said it was NOT because they were greater sinners. My  premise, once I reject the idea of physical death being a result of the "Fall", I find a great number of reasons to accept that the "death" that Adam experienced "in the day he ate thereof" was Spiritual.  MY ASSUMPTION is that the purpose of the Genesis account was to show the Hebrews their special relationship with God.  Physical death was no "big deal to them". What they are about to be shown with the the giving of the 10 commandments and the Levitical system was how they might approach God at the spriritual level and be "reconciled" to him through the offerings of sacrifices offered "by faith". None of the rituals or types ever suggested that their coming to the Tabernacle would negate the physical death that was common to all creation.  Thus the day of AT-ONE-MENT was the SPIRITUAL reconciliation of a people who had "died" or been separated from their very LIFE because of their Spiritual "rebellion". This now makes a solid connection with everything the New Testament speaks of as our Spiritual separation or being dead in our trespass and sin, and of Jesus being come to RECONCILE us to God.  Here we do get the reference: And so it is written: "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:45 Every reference in the NT to LIFE is the contrast of a Spirit alive to the spirit dead and separated. Reconciliation does not speak of an animated body but a relationship.  A creature made "in the image of God" is one who can communicate with God who is "Spirit".  But his sin separates him (ie he is dead) but Christ make the sinner who "walks by Faith" alive. IF my premise is correct that the "sin of adam" did not result in physical death then there is also no reason to suggest that natural death in the animal kingdom is any reason for them to be counted as that which is "groaning" and awaiting some "new" order.  Nothing in Romans 8 leading up to this verse or these verses suggests that Paul or any other believer was thinking of animal or plant creation.  Paul elsewhere refers to PEOPLE being made a New Creation. The earlier  verses in Romans 8 are talking about the Spirit indwelling the believer and emphasizes the difference between spiritual death. So notice that Romans 8, while NOT talking about animals it does mention the carnally minded.  It is the old joke that there are only two kinds of people in the world and while we say the Irish and those who wish they were or however you want to put the twist on it, Paul is saying that there are those of us who are of the "Firstfruit" of the Spirit and if we are groaning waiting for the day when we are delivered from the encumbrance of the body and we already have the experience of the Spirit, just imagine how the "rest of the HUMAN creation" are groaning. And what is the redemption of the body? NOT the taking on of flesh and dwelling on earth, even a "new" earth, but rather that fantastic "spiritual" heavenly being described in 1 Corinthians 15. Assumptions of a physical death coming ONLY after the Fall, means that we come to think of death as being a punishment because of Adam's sin and we think that this is the 'enemy' to be destroyed.  But if the death that will be destroyed is not the physical but the Spiritual separation, then physical death is really the friend that lets us "put off the mortal flesh" and put on the unencumbered Spirit of 1 Cor. 15.  Now while there is no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus while living on earth, there there will be NO separation between myself and my Saviour.  I will see him face to face and I shall be as he is.  Death where is your sting and grave where is your victory because the Spiritual barriers are done away with. And if physical death, natural disasters, normal life and death cycles were part of all things natural from the beginning, then we do not ask "why me" when death or suffering comes our way, we say instead "Why not me?" and we turn our attention to God, not to have us escape these thing, these trials which are common to all mankind, but rather we fine that God is our strength and refuge that sees us through them all. This really is what the trusting adam (male and female) had been experiencing for as long as they had been "walking by faith" and being dependent on their Father (Matthew 6) but what they had given up when they wanted to do it "independently' and "my way".  Once they had to face life "on their own" they discovered the knowledge of good and evil, ie, Reality, good and heavy slogging.  Just like the rebellious adolescent who learn what it is like to face life without mom and dad to be there for them. OH yes. Twisting Scripture to suggest that having to return to the dust (adamah) from which the adam came is proof that physical death was the result of sin, is to read into the passage (because of an assumption) that which is not there.  The curse was to the land and for adam it meant that he would labour all his days "by the sweat of his brow".  But physical death was part of the big picture from the beginning and the difference was that things were going to be a bit less of being on easy street, (or figuratively--- being in the garden). Jesus emphasized the trust relationship that has always existed with nature when he contrasted our "worry" with the birds and creatures and the lilies of the field that allowed God to provide for them.